Ina Forrest


Personal information

Canada  

Born: 
5/25/1962
Gender: 
Female
Delivery: 
Left
Type Played Gold Silver Bronze Best finish Games Wins Losses
PG 4 2 0 2 - 46 36 10
WWHCC 14 3 3 0 - 143 90 53
WWHBC 1 1 0 0 - 8 7 1
  19 6 3 2   197 133 64

Paralympic Games

Year Association Ranking Position Personal Record Club
2010 Canada 1 2 9 - 1 Vernon CC, Vernon, British Columbia
  GBR 9-2USA 10-5NOR 6-5JPN 13-2SWE 4-8SUI 15-1GER 8-6KOR 6-4, ITA 7-8, SF:SWE 10-5, F:KOR 8-7
2014 Canada 1 3 9 - 2 -
  GBR 6-3RUS 5-4SWE 7-4USA 7-2NOR 6-8CHN 8-5KOR 10-4SVK 16-0FIN 1-12, SF:CHN 5-4, F:RUS 8-3
2018 Canada 3 3 10 - 3 -
  SUI 8-0NOR 10-1SWE 8-4KOR 5-7GBR 1-8CHN 8-5USA 6-5NPA 5-4SVK 9-5GER 6-2FIN 8-4, SF:CHN 3-4, B:KOR 5-3
2022 Canada 3 3 8 - 4 -
  CHN 7-3SUI 8-4LAT 10-3USA 7-4SWE 3-6KOR 4-9SVK 8-9GBR 6-3EST 9-3NOR 7-6, SF:CHN 5-9, B:SVK 8-3

World Wheelchair Curling Championships

Year Association Ranking Position Personal Record Club
2007 Canada 4 A 0 - 0 -
  DEN 7-4, NOR 6-1, SUI 7-8, RUS 2-9, KOR 8-5, JPN 3-4, USA 4-3, SWE 5-2, SCO 6-3, SF:NOR 7-8, B:SCO 4-7
2008 Canada 4 2 6 - 6 -
  ITA 0-7JPN 8-1SUI 5-3RUS 8-4SWE 7-4NOR 7-0USA 5-4KOR 5-6SCO 2-5, P1:KOR 2-7, SF:NOR 5-6, B:USA 1-8
2009 Canada 1 2 8 - 4 -
  SCO 10-2CHN 3-8ITA 5-9SUI 11-4USA 3-6KOR 9-4SWE 6-3GER 7-4NOR 2-5, P3:USA 9-2, SF:GER 10-4, F:SWE 9-2
2011 Canada 1 2 11 - 0 -
  CHN 6-5USA 5-4KOR 6-5RUS 7-3SWE 7-3CZE 5-4GER 13-0NOR 7-4SCO 9-4, P1:NOR 7-4, F:SCO 7-3
2012 Canada 7 3 3 - 6 Alberta Avenue CC, Edmonton, Alberta
  ITA 7-4KOR 1-7SVK 4-5SCO 8-2NOR 5-6RUS 3-7SWE 1-8CHN 2-7USA 7-5
2013 Canada 1 2 10 - 2 -
  KOR 7-1SCO 8-3RUS 8-5CHN 9-5SVK 7-3USA 7-1SWE 7-8FIN 8-2NOR 7-6, P1:SWE 5-6, SF:USA 6-3, F:SWE 4-3
2015 Canada 6 4 4 - 5 -
  CHN 3-8GER 4-6FIN 8-3SWE 6-4USA 8-9SCO 6-4NOR 9-2SVK 6-7RUS 4-6
2016 Canada 7 3 3 - 6 -
  SUI 2-7USA 6-9CHN 7-8KOR 3-7SVK 9-3FIN 2-10RUS 2-7NOR 8-5GER 6-3
2017 Canada 5 3 5 - 5 -
  SCO 5-4SUI 3-4USA 6-4GER 8-2CHN 2-6KOR 4-8FIN 8-6NOR 2-9RUS 9-2NOR 4-5
2019 Canada 10 A 5 - 2 -
  LAT 6-7, KOR 4-5, NOR 2-9, SUI 4-8, CHN 5-3SVK 8-7RUS 6-3GER 7-2USA 7-3EST 4-8SCO 3-5
2020 Canada 2 3 9 - 5 -
  SVK 7-5RUS 1-8KOR 6-3SUI 6-4SCO 10-2NOR 8-6LAT 7-4CZE 4-5SWE 9-4EST 2-7CHN 2-12, QF:KOR 5-4, SF:SWE 3-2, F:RUS 4-5
2021 Canada 5 3 7 - 5 -
  USA 4-6SUI 6-3CHN 4-2SWE 5-4SCO 4-7NOR 6-7RCF 6-9KOR 8-2SVK 8-3LAT 6-2ITA 7-6, QF:USA 4-6
2023 Canada 2 3 10 - 3 -
  CHN 4-8CZE 8-2USA 6-4LAT 7-6JPN 7-4NOR 10-3ITA 6-4SCO 8-1KOR 3-7SWE 13-1DEN 7-3, SF:SCO 5-2, F:CHN 2-5
2024 Canada 2 3 9 - 4 -
  KOR 9-6SVK 6-4ITA 8-3CHN 4-6EST 7-5USA 5-7SCO 2-8LAT 9-2CZE 13-4NOR 8-0SWE 9-6, SF:SWE 4-2, F:NOR 2-6

World Wheelchair B-Curling Championship

Year Association Ranking Position Personal Record Club
2019 Canada 1 3 7 - 1 -
  ITA 11-3TUR 10-3FIN 4-6SWE 7-5JPN 11-3POL 16-3, SF:CZE 10-4, F:SWE 6-1

Opponent Wins Losses
China 8 11
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2009 WWHCC 2 Jim Armstrong Haitao Wang 3 - 8
2011 WWHCC 1 Jim Armstrong Haitao Wang 6 - 5
2012 WWHCC 8 Darryl Neighbour Haitao Wang 2 - 7
2013 WWHCC 5 Jim Armstrong Haitao Wang 9 - 5
2014 PG 8 Jim Armstrong Haitao Wang 8 - 5
2014 PG SF Jim Armstrong Haitao Wang 5 - 4
2015 WWHCC 1 Mark Ideson Haitao Wang 3 - 8
2016 WWHCC 4 Jim Armstrong Jianxin Chen 7 - 8
2017 WWHCC 7 Mark Ideson Haitao Wang 2 - 6
2018 PG 9 Mark Ideson Haitao Wang 8 - 5
2018 PG SF Mark Ideson Haitao Wang 3 - 4
2019 WWHCC 8 Mark Ideson Haitao Wang 5 - 3
2020 WWHCC 17 Mark Ideson Haitao Wang 2 - 12
2021 WWHCC 5 Mark Ideson Yulong Sun 4 - 2
2022 PG 1 Mark Ideson Haitao Wang 7 - 3
2022 PG SF Mark Ideson Haitao Wang 5 - 9
2023 WWHCC 1 Mark Ideson Haitao Wang 4 - 8
2023 WWHCC F Mark Ideson Haitao Wang 2 - 5
2024 WWHCC 7 Mark Ideson Haitao Wang 4 - 6
Finals:  0  -  1 Playoffs:  1  -  3 Other:  7  -  8
Czechia 4 1
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2011 WWHCC 7 Jim Armstrong Radek Pokorny 5 - 4
2019 WWHBC SF Mark Ideson Dana Selnekovicova 10 - 4
2020 WWHCC 12 Mark Ideson Dana Selnekovicova 4 - 5
2023 WWHCC 2 Mark Ideson Dana Selnekovicova 8 - 2
2024 WWHCC 13 Mark Ideson Dana Selnekovicova 13 - 4
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  1  -  0 Other:  3  -  1
Denmark 1 0
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2023 WWHCC 11 Mark Ideson Kenneth Ørbæk 7 - 3
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  0  -  0 Other:  1  -  0
Estonia 2 2
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2019 WWHCC 15 Mark Ideson Viljar Villiste 4 - 8
2020 WWHCC 15 Mark Ideson Andrei Koitmae 2 - 7
2022 PG 14 Mark Ideson Andrei Koitmae 9 - 3
2024 WWHCC 8 Mark Ideson Ain Villau 7 - 5
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  0  -  0 Other:  2  -  2
Finland 4 3
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2013 WWHCC 10 Jim Armstrong Vesa Hellman 8 - 2
2014 PG 12 Jim Armstrong Markku Karjalainen 1 - 12
2015 WWHCC 3 Mark Ideson Markku Karjalainen 8 - 3
2016 WWHCC 9 Jim Armstrong Markku Karjalainen 2 - 10
2017 WWHCC 9 Jim Armstrong Markku Karjalainen 8 - 6
2018 PG 16 Mark Ideson Markku Karjalainen 8 - 4
2019 WWHBC 7 Mark Ideson Juha Rajala 4 - 6
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  0  -  0 Other:  4  -  3
Germany 8 1
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2009 WWHCC 11 Jim Armstrong Jens Jäger 7 - 4
2009 WWHCC SF Jim Armstrong Jens Jäger 10 - 4
2010 PG 9 Jim Armstrong Jens Jäger 8 - 6
2011 WWHCC 9 Jim Armstrong Marcus Sieger 13 - 0
2015 WWHCC 2 Mark Ideson Jens Jäger 4 - 6
2016 WWHCC 12 Jim Armstrong Christiane Putzich 6 - 3
2017 WWHCC 6 Jim Armstrong Christiane Putzich 8 - 2
2018 PG 15 Mark Ideson Christiane Putzich 6 - 2
2019 WWHCC 12 Mark Ideson Christiane Putzich 7 - 2
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  1  -  0 Other:  7  -  1
Great Britain 3 1
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2010 PG 1 Jim Armstrong Michael McCreadie 9 - 2
2014 PG 1 Jim Armstrong Aileen Neilson 6 - 3
2018 PG 8 Mark Ideson Aileen Neilson 1 - 8
2022 PG 13 Mark Ideson Hugh Nibloe 6 - 3
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  0  -  0 Other:  3  -  1
Italy 5 2
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2008 WWHCC 1 Gerry Austgarden Andrea Tabanelli 0 - 7
2009 WWHCC 3 Jim Armstrong Andrea Tabanelli 5 - 9
2012 WWHCC 1 Darryl Neighbour Andrea Tabanelli 7 - 4
2019 WWHBC 1 Mark Ideson Paolo Ioratti 11 - 3
2021 WWHCC 17 Mark Ideson Angela Menardi 7 - 6
2023 WWHCC 7 Mark Ideson Egidio Marchese 6 - 4
2024 WWHCC 5 Mark Ideson Egidio Marchese 8 - 3
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  0  -  0 Other:  5  -  2
Japan 4 0
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2008 WWHCC 2 Gerry Austgarden Yoji Nakajima 8 - 1
2010 PG 5 Jim Armstrong Yoji Nakajima 13 - 2
2019 WWHBC 11 Mark Ideson Takashi Sakataya 11 - 3
2023 WWHCC 5 Mark Ideson Takashi Sakataya 7 - 4
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  0  -  0 Other:  4  -  0
Korea 11 8
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2008 WWHCC 8 Gerry Austgarden Hak-Sung Kim 5 - 6
2008 WWHCC P1 Gerry Austgarden Hak-Sung Kim 2 - 7
2009 WWHCC 8 Jim Armstrong Hak-Sung Kim 9 - 4
2010 PG 10 Jim Armstrong Hak-Sung Kim 6 - 4
2010 PG F Jim Armstrong Hak-Sung Kim 8 - 7
2011 WWHCC 3 Jim Armstrong Tac Yeon Jeong 6 - 5
2012 WWHCC 2 Darryl Neighbour Hak-Sung Kim 1 - 7
2013 WWHCC 1 Jim Armstrong Hak-Sung Kim 7 - 1
2014 PG 9 Jim Armstrong Jong-Pan Kim 10 - 4
2016 WWHCC 5 Jim Armstrong Hui-Tae Yang 3 - 7
2017 WWHCC 8 Jim Armstrong Jae-Goan Cha 4 - 8
2018 PG 6 Mark Ideson Soon-Seok Seo 5 - 7
2018 PG B Mark Ideson Soon-Seok Seo 5 - 3
2020 WWHCC QF Mark Ideson Seung Won Jung 5 - 4
2020 WWHCC 5 Mark Ideson Seung Won Jung 6 - 3
2021 WWHCC 12 Mark Ideson Jaehyuk Jang 8 - 2
2022 PG 9 Mark Ideson Jaehyuk Jang 4 - 9
2023 WWHCC 9 Mark Ideson Hyeonchul Lee 3 - 7
2024 WWHCC 1 Mark Ideson Hyeonchul Lee 9 - 6
Finals:  1  -  0 Playoffs:  3  -  1 Other:  8  -  7
Latvia 5 0
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2020 WWHCC 11 Mark Ideson Polina Rozkova 7 - 4
2021 WWHCC 16 Mark Ideson Polina Rozkova 6 - 2
2022 PG 4 Mark Ideson Polina Rozkova 10 - 3
2023 WWHCC 4 Mark Ideson Ojars Briedis 7 - 6
2024 WWHCC 12 Mark Ideson Ojars Briedis 9 - 2
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  0  -  0 Other:  5  -  0
Neutral Paralympic Athletes 1 0
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2018 PG 13 Mark Ideson Konstantin Kurokhtin 5 - 4
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  0  -  0 Other:  1  -  0
Norway 12 8
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2008 WWHCC 6 Gary Cormack Rune Lorentsen 7 - 0
2008 WWHCC SF Gerry Austgarden Rune Lorentsen 5 - 6
2009 WWHCC 12 Jim Armstrong Rune Lorentsen 2 - 5
2010 PG 3 Jim Armstrong Rune Lorentsen 6 - 5
2011 WWHCC 10 Jim Armstrong Rune Lorentsen 7 - 4
2011 WWHCC P1 Jim Armstrong Rune Lorentsen 7 - 4
2012 WWHCC 5 Sonja Gaudet Rune Lorentsen 5 - 6
2013 WWHCC 11 Jim Armstrong Rune Lorentsen 7 - 6
2014 PG 6 Jim Armstrong Rune Lorentsen 6 - 8
2015 WWHCC 7 Mark Ideson Rune Lorentsen 9 - 2
2016 WWHCC 11 Jim Armstrong Rune Lorentsen 8 - 5
2017 WWHCC 11 Jim Armstrong Rune Lorentsen 2 - 9
2017 WWHCC T1 Jim Armstrong Jostein Stordahl 4 - 5
2018 PG 2 Mark Ideson Rune Lorentsen 10 - 1
2020 WWHCC 10 Mark Ideson Jostein Stordahl 8 - 6
2021 WWHCC 9 Mark Ideson Ole Fredrik Syversen 6 - 7
2022 PG 15 Mark Ideson Ole Fredrik Syversen 7 - 6
2023 WWHCC 6 Mark Ideson Ole Fredrik Syversen 10 - 3
2024 WWHCC 15 Mark Ideson Jostein Stordahl 8 - 0
2024 WWHCC F Mark Ideson Jostein Stordahl 2 - 6
Finals:  0  -  1 Playoffs:  1  -  2 Other:  11  -  6
Poland 1 0
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2019 WWHBC 13 Mark Ideson Lukasz Waszek 16 - 3
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  0  -  0 Other:  1  -  0
RCF 0 1
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2021 WWHCC 10 Mark Ideson Konstantin Kurokhtin 6 - 9
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  0  -  0 Other:  0  -  1
Russia 7 5
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2008 WWHCC 4 Gerry Austgarden Marat Romanov 8 - 4
2011 WWHCC 5 Jim Armstrong Marat Romanov 7 - 3
2012 WWHCC 6 Sonja Gaudet Andrey Smirnov 3 - 7
2013 WWHCC 3 Jim Armstrong Andrey Smirnov 8 - 5
2014 PG 2 Jim Armstrong Andrey Smirnov 5 - 4
2014 PG F Jim Armstrong Andrey Smirnov 8 - 3
2015 WWHCC 9 Mark Ideson Andrey Smirnov 4 - 6
2016 WWHCC 10 Jim Armstrong Andrey Smirnov 2 - 7
2017 WWHCC 12 Jim Armstrong Andrey Smirnov 9 - 2
2019 WWHCC 11 Mark Ideson Andrey Smirnov 6 - 3
2020 WWHCC F Mark Ideson Konstantin Kurokhtin 4 - 5
2020 WWHCC 3 Mark Ideson Konstantin Kurokhtin 1 - 8
Finals:  1  -  1 Playoffs:  1  -  1 Other:  6  -  4
Scotland 10 4
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2008 WWHCC 9 Gary Cormack Michael McCreadie 2 - 5
2009 WWHCC 1 Jim Armstrong Michael McCreadie 10 - 2
2011 WWHCC 12 Jim Armstrong Michael McKenzie 9 - 4
2011 WWHCC F Jim Armstrong Aileen Neilson 7 - 3
2012 WWHCC 4 Sonja Gaudet Aileen Neilson 8 - 2
2013 WWHCC 2 Jim Armstrong Aileen Neilson 8 - 3
2015 WWHCC 6 Mark Ideson Aileen Neilson 6 - 4
2017 WWHCC 1 Jim Armstrong Aileen Neilson 5 - 4
2019 WWHCC 17 Mark Ideson Aileen Neilson 3 - 5
2020 WWHCC 8 Mark Ideson Hugh Nibloe 10 - 2
2021 WWHCC 7 Mark Ideson Hugh Nibloe 4 - 7
2023 WWHCC 8 Mark Ideson Hugh Nibloe 8 - 1
2023 WWHCC SF Mark Ideson Hugh Nibloe 5 - 2
2024 WWHCC 11 Mark Ideson Hugh Nibloe 2 - 8
Finals:  1  -  0 Playoffs:  2  -  0 Other:  8  -  4
Slovakia 9 3
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2012 WWHCC 3 Darryl Neighbour Radoslav Duris 4 - 5
2013 WWHCC 6 Jim Armstrong Radoslav Duris 7 - 3
2014 PG 11 Jim Armstrong Radoslav Duris 16 - 0
2015 WWHCC 8 Mark Ideson Radoslav Duris 6 - 7
2016 WWHCC 7 Jim Armstrong Radoslav Duris 9 - 3
2018 PG 14 Mark Ideson Radoslav Duris 9 - 5
2019 WWHCC 10 Mark Ideson Radoslav Duris 8 - 7
2020 WWHCC 1 Mark Ideson Radoslav Duris 7 - 5
2021 WWHCC 14 Mark Ideson Radoslav Duris 8 - 3
2022 PG 11 Mark Ideson Radoslav Duris 8 - 9
2022 PG B Mark Ideson Radoslav Duris 8 - 3
2024 WWHCC 3 Mark Ideson Radoslav Duris 6 - 4
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  1  -  0 Other:  8  -  3
Sweden 17 5
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2008 WWHCC 5 Gerry Austgarden Jalle Jungnell 7 - 4
2009 WWHCC 9 Jim Armstrong Jalle Jungnell 6 - 3
2009 WWHCC F Jim Armstrong Jalle Jungnell 9 - 2
2010 PG 6 Jim Armstrong Jalle Jungnell 4 - 8
2010 PG SF Jim Armstrong Jalle Jungnell 10 - 5
2011 WWHCC 6 Jim Armstrong Glenn Ikonen 7 - 3
2012 WWHCC 7 Sonja Gaudet Jalle Jungnell 1 - 8
2013 WWHCC 9 Jim Armstrong Jalle Jungnell 7 - 8
2013 WWHCC P1 Jim Armstrong Jalle Jungnell 5 - 6
2013 WWHCC F Jim Armstrong Jalle Jungnell 4 - 3
2014 PG 4 Jim Armstrong Jalle Jungnell 7 - 4
2015 WWHCC 4 Mark Ideson Jalle Jungnell 6 - 4
2018 PG 4 Mark Ideson Viljo Petersson-Dahl 8 - 4
2019 WWHBC 9 Mark Ideson Viljo Petersson-Dahl 7 - 5
2019 WWHBC F Mark Ideson Viljo Petersson-Dahl 6 - 1
2020 WWHCC SF Mark Ideson Viljo Petersson-Dahl 3 - 2
2020 WWHCC 13 Mark Ideson Viljo Petersson-Dahl 9 - 4
2021 WWHCC 6 Mark Ideson Viljo Petersson-Dahl 5 - 4
2022 PG 8 Mark Ideson Viljo Petersson-Dahl 3 - 6
2023 WWHCC 10 Mark Ideson Viljo Petersson-Dahl 13 - 1
2024 WWHCC 17 Mark Ideson Viljo Petersson-Dahl 9 - 6
2024 WWHCC SF Mark Ideson Viljo Petersson-Dahl 4 - 2
Finals:  3  -  0 Playoffs:  6  -  1 Other:  11  -  4
Switzerland 7 2
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2008 WWHCC 3 Gary Cormack Manfred Bolliger 5 - 3
2009 WWHCC 5 Jim Armstrong Manfred Bolliger 11 - 4
2010 PG 7 Jim Armstrong Manfred Bolliger 15 - 1
2016 WWHCC 1 Jim Armstrong Felix Wagner 2 - 7
2017 WWHCC 3 Jim Armstrong Felix Wagner 3 - 4
2018 PG 1 Mark Ideson Felix Wagner 8 - 0
2020 WWHCC 7 Mark Ideson Raymond Pfyffer 6 - 4
2021 WWHCC 4 Mark Ideson Eric Décorvet 6 - 3
2022 PG 2 Mark Ideson Laurent Kneubühl 8 - 4
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  0  -  0 Other:  7  -  2
Türkiye 1 0
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2019 WWHBC 5 Mark Ideson Savas Simsek 10 - 3
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  0  -  0 Other:  1  -  0
United States of America 13 7
 
Year Tournament Draw Team Opponent Score
2008 WWHCC 7 Gerry Austgarden Augusto J. Perez 5 - 4
2008 WWHCC B Gerry Austgarden Augusto J. Perez 1 - 8
2009 WWHCC 6 Jim Armstrong Augusto J. Perez 3 - 6
2009 WWHCC P3 Jim Armstrong Augusto J. Perez 9 - 2
2010 PG 2 Jim Armstrong Augusto J. Perez 10 - 5
2011 WWHCC 2 Jim Armstrong Augusto J. Perez 5 - 4
2012 WWHCC 9 Darryl Neighbour Patrick McDonald 7 - 5
2013 WWHCC 7 Jim Armstrong Patrick McDonald 7 - 1
2013 WWHCC SF Jim Armstrong Patrick McDonald 6 - 3
2014 PG 5 Jim Armstrong Patrick McDonald 7 - 2
2015 WWHCC 5 Mark Ideson Patrick McDonald 8 - 9
2016 WWHCC 3 Jim Armstrong Patrick McDonald 6 - 9
2017 WWHCC 4 Jim Armstrong Stephen Emt 6 - 4
2018 PG 11 Mark Ideson Kirk Black 6 - 5
2019 WWHCC 13 Mark Ideson Stephen Emt 7 - 3
2021 WWHCC 2 Mark Ideson Matt Thums 4 - 6
2021 WWHCC QF Mark Ideson Matt Thums 4 - 6
2022 PG 6 Mark Ideson Matt Thums 7 - 4
2023 WWHCC 3 Mark Ideson Stephen Emt 6 - 4
2024 WWHCC 10 Mark Ideson Matt Thums 5 - 7
Finals:  0  -  0 Playoffs:  2  -  2 Other:  11  -  5

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